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  #21  
Old 11-25-2008, 07:41 PM
Clay Clay is offline
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Originally Posted by Allofus123 View Post
When I was having these issues my fix was upping the purge time to 12/13 seconds and the idle run to 1:30. Of course that was with warm weather. I don't get much in the way of cold weather down here but when it dropped into the mid 30's the other night I did have a rough start the next morning. Temps have warmed back up here so until it drops again I won't be able to play with my timer cards to see if extending my run time corrects the problem. Think DFA should amend the 60 seconds claim to read each truck needs to be individually dialed in with purge cycle times from 60 to 150 seconds.
Like you, if I ran strickly diesel the day before I had no issues starting the next day so I feel confident it was an issue of WVO not clearing. From what I recall there has been several V3 owners that have starting issues when dialing in the 10 second purge and 60 second run as recommended.
Purge time and idle time are easily calculated and that is what JAson has done. The only thing i can see altering the idle time - burning more fuel or less fuel from one truck to the next, would be if the injectors were not facotry and in that case they would in fact use fuel faster i would think leading to a shorter idle to slear the vegi.
I believe these idle times are set to a max of 50 seconds unless the timer card dip switches are set to minutes rather than seconds and 50 sec. is not enough...period. A full 60 seconds is enough so set your timer card to minutes and to something 60 seconds or more if you like. Purge time itself won't make a hill of beans difference between 8 sec. and 12. The fuel rails will clear in probably 3 sec. and the remaining purge time simply clears the fuel hose from the V3 module and replaces that with diesel so your next start up you won't have cold vegi in that unheated portion of the system from the V3 to the heads.
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  #22  
Old 11-25-2008, 09:11 PM
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Too many people have dialed up their timer cards pass the 60 second mark and still have hard start problems. (My classification of a hard start is more cranking than normal and the engine cavitating after starting) The hard start is not isolated to one person. The common thread tend to be the shorter purge or run times since when people extend those times the hard starts go away.

This was an immeadiate problem for me after installing the V3 and it went away after extending both purge and idle time. I know I can pull the hose and dial in the actual time it takes for the wvo to clear (purge) but I'm siding on beyond the manufacturers suggestions so this shouldn't be the issue. I've also extended the idle/run time, as have others, beyond what the manufacturer suggest and still getting a hard start in cold weather. I feel confident extending my idle/run time further than the 1:30 sec I currently use will eliminate this for me as well as others. How much past 1:30 sec I don't know. If this is indeed the solutions to our hard starts than DFA should acknowledge it. I'm all for a better explanation......
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  #23  
Old 11-25-2008, 10:27 PM
Clay Clay is offline
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Too many people have dialed up their timer cards pass the 60 second mark and still have hard start problems. (My classification of a hard start is more cranking than normal and the engine cavitating after starting) The hard start is not isolated to one person. The common thread tend to be the shorter purge or run times since when people extend those times the hard starts go away.

This was an immeadiate problem for me after installing the V3 and it went away after extending both purge and idle time. I know I can pull the hose and dial in the actual time it takes for the wvo to clear (purge) but I'm siding on beyond the manufacturers suggestions so this shouldn't be the issue. I've also extended the idle/run time, as have others, beyond what the manufacturer suggest and still getting a hard start in cold weather. I feel confident extending my idle/run time further than the 1:30 sec I currently use will eliminate this for me as well as others. How much past 1:30 sec I don't know. If this is indeed the solutions to our hard starts than DFA should acknowledge it. I'm all for a better explanation......
I purge for less time than anyone else i have heard from here and idle longer than Jason says is nessecary but i do that for other reasons...too cool down a hot turbo.
Hard starts can be caused by many things and yours maybe from vegi oil but it likely could be something else too so unless you have proven its vegi, why point fingers?
Have you checked your glow plus to insure they are all 8 firing? have you done buzz test to see that all 8 injectors are cycling properly?
Do you leave your glow plugs on to warm untill they have actually had time to work or do you turn the key as soon as the wait to start light goes out after 10 seconds when its 10 degrees out?
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  #24  
Old 11-25-2008, 10:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Allofus123 View Post
Too many people have dialed up their timer cards pass the 60 second mark and still have hard start problems. (My classification of a hard start is more cranking than normal and the engine cavitating after starting) The hard start is not isolated to one person. The common thread tend to be the shorter purge or run times since when people extend those times the hard starts go away.

This was an immeadiate problem for me after installing the V3 and it went away after extending both purge and idle time. I know I can pull the hose and dial in the actual time it takes for the wvo to clear (purge) but I'm siding on beyond the manufacturers suggestions so this shouldn't be the issue. I've also extended the idle/run time, as have others, beyond what the manufacturer suggest and still getting a hard start in cold weather. I feel confident extending my idle/run time further than the 1:30 sec I currently use will eliminate this for me as well as others. How much past 1:30 sec I don't know. If this is indeed the solutions to our hard starts than DFA should acknowledge it. I'm all for a better explanation......
Allofus,
I'm in a much colder climate than you, so my starting problem is even more noticeable. I am doing the same as you and gradually increasing my run times. I thought I had it licked at a two minute run, but when the temps dropped to the teens, I was again experiencing rough starts/idle the next day. I have been very careful in maintaining consistent conditions in my testing. Running the day before on diesel produces smooth starts, running the day before on veg does not result in smooth starts.

I posted before that using the block heater will alleviate the hard starts. However, I want to use the system as it was designed and therefore have no veg in my injectors upon start-up. Will definitely go back to using the block heater when I am sure my truck is completely eliminating veg from the system. Be interesting to know what people in the northern most part of the country are seeing. - Patrick
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  #25  
Old 11-26-2008, 01:28 AM
Hooter Hooter is offline
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Do you leave your glow plugs on to warm untill they have actually had time to work or do you turn the key as soon as the wait to start light goes out after 10 seconds when its 10 degrees out?
How long do they take to work? I turn the key as soon as the light goes out, but go figure what I know
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  #26  
Old 11-26-2008, 01:54 AM
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there are many ways to use your glow plugs heres a few.1)turn key,light goes out start(65-85F not on WVO).2)turn key count to 10 start(50-65F),for each 10F colder add 5 count(up to 30 count, 1 mississppi ,2 mississippi etc...)3)under extreme conditions ie under 20F with hard wind,or questionable purge run time,(or glow plug relay malfunction) Turn key,light goes out count to ten,cycle glowplugs 1 or 2 more times then start.The last one I used to use trucking,not plugged in at -20F fires right up.....everytime.This should get you out of the driveway without replacing your starter.Clay could be right about glow plug malfuction,but don't over look a bad block heater cord,(or depend on f-series or Excursion )glow plug relay,or glow plug module(X).Hope this helps,any Q's maybe I can help(I drive a diesel in one of the coldest states in USA on WVO)............greasy
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Old 11-26-2008, 01:45 PM
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How long do they take to work? I turn the key as soon as the light goes out, but go figure what I know
It is my understanding that the glow plugs continue to heat for 90 seconds when you key it on. The light goes out very quickly but when it is extremely cold, try leaving the glowplugs to heat 30, 60 or even 90 seconds and see how much easier it starts. I am not familiar with how hot the get or hot fast but i do know when its 12* outside (that don't happen real oftern in OK) I will cycle it for 90 seconds, key off and key on for another 60 or 90 seconds and she likes that much better when i crank it.
I simply can not believe anyone who is purging for more than 8 seconds and idling for 1.5 minutes or more has any vegi in the injectors to cause a rough start the next cold day.
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  #28  
Old 11-26-2008, 02:19 PM
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Just returned from the mighty hunt and had temps to -5. Ex started slow due to original batteries. Glow plugs cycled once and it started. 10 second purge 2min run. Sure I wish I could have pluged in but electricity was not available.
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  #29  
Old 11-26-2008, 02:33 PM
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Clay, I'm pretty sure I posted "I'm all for a better answer" to these hard starts but you pointing the finger back at us that its something else as if we're pulling our assessments out of the air is ridiculus. I don't have 10 degree weather and prob never will. The issue goes away if the run time/purge is extended and it seems to go away for everyone that has this exact same issue if they extend the times. If the issue didn't resolve itself after extending run times on shut down I would agree we should be looking else where.

We're a fairly small group on this BB yet many have the exact same issue which started AFTER our installs and usage of VO. Cold weather accentuates the problem yet extending the shut down time makes it go away. Seems like a very reasonable assessment. Seems more plausable that there is still some small amount of VO either in the injectors or fuel line and extending our run time eliminates it.

As far as pointing fingers..... hardly the case. I love my V3 and totally believe its the best in the business. I have no issues recommending the product or telling people the extent DFA goes to put out a top quality product along with top notch customer service. What I don't agree with is touting it as a less than 60 second shut down process when so many people have stated that they can not do so without issues. One person having the problem points to an individual issue... many having the exact same problem point to the common denominator.
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Old 11-26-2008, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by CHenry View Post
It is my understanding that the glow plugs continue to heat for 90 seconds when you key it on. The light goes out very quickly but when it is extremely cold, try leaving the glowplugs to heat 30, 60 or even 90 seconds and see how much easier it starts. I am not familiar with how hot the get or hot fast but i do know when its 12* outside (that don't happen real oftern in OK) I will cycle it for 90 seconds, key off and key on for another 60 or 90 seconds and she likes that much better when i crank it.
I simply can not believe anyone who is purging for more than 8 seconds and idling for 1.5 minutes or more has any vegi in the injectors to cause a rough start the next cold day.
Clay,
Would like to get an opinion from you: If I purge for 11 seconds and run for 2 minutes, I am getting rough starts the next day in cold weather. If I run the day before on diesel, I get smooth starts. This is with conditions constant for both situations (shut down at 40F ambient, vehicle sits for 12 hours, start next day in the high teens to low 20's, not using the block heater, glow plugs cycled same frequency and duration).

This is what I am experiencing. Since I have been able to repeat this procedure with results being the same several times, it seems to rule out causes other than veg left in the engine (glow plugs and starting system in general work fine if vehicle ran on diesel the day before). If this is something unique to my vehicle/install, I would ask that you offer an opinion as to what may be causing it and how I might correct it. - Patrick
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